Dave McCaughan, 68: We Are Not Who They Think We Are

Dave is a student of age. He studies how it is perceived in different cultures, what brands get wrong, and how we need to evolve as an aging world. He started out as a public children’s librarian for a decade in Sydney. Next, he went to a career in advertising, then started his own consultancy based on digging out what is really happening with people our age. His work and his insights are global, and what better place to live than Bangkok, Thailand.

Part of Dave’s work centers around people whom he calls New Life Builders. These folks are focused on what to do next, what to try, where to make an impact. His work explodes so many of the misconceptions that people our age face. For example, we are all looking to essentially shut down and await our fate; his work shows it is actually quite the opposite. So many of us find freedom and strength that allows us to experiment and try all manner of new things.

How old are you?
Just turned 68 … wow, where did the last 50 years go?

“When I left the corporate world at 58, it made sense to “retry” life from a city we were comfortable with. We chose one that offers all the advantages of Asia like great food and a snapshot of the region.”

Where do you live?
Bangkok since 2015, originally from Sydney. Lived in Asia since 1996 — in Bangkok twice, Hong Kong twice and Tokyo for a decade. But, we also spend a lot of time in Sydney, usually time in Rome every year (where my wife is from) and, well, let’s just say Bangkok is our base but we get around.

Why there?
2 stretches of total 13+ years in Bangkok. Originally because I was asked by the company I worked for in Australia, global advertising agency McCann, to “go there for maybe 2 years then come back to Sydney.” But working in Asia suited me, my family liked it, and my kids grew up here. We liked it. So when I left the corporate world at 58, it made sense to “retry” life and do it from a city we were comfortable with, one that offers all the advantages of Asia like great food and a snapshot of the region. I advise brands about what matters to people and how to build brand stories across markets. That said, being in a city that is literally at the center of the region both geographically and socioeconomically provides a great perspective. 

What is your business, Dave?
In short, storytelling. I started life as a public children’s librarian for a decade in Sydney. Then I spent over 28 years with McCann, much of it as head of market research and strategy planning for the Asia Pacific region. There, I helped develop the Asia version of brand stories for companies like Coca-Cola, Mastercard, L’Oréal.

“Like a lot of professionals at 58, I had decided that I should ‘start something new’.”

In 2015, I left to retry things and set up my own advisory company: BIBLIOSEXUAL. Here, I focus on helping brands understand what really matters to people and how to create better brand stories. Like a lot of professionals at 58, I had decided that I should “start something new.” A lot of that has meant rethinking how we understand people. We use new technologies to do that. For example, learning to use AI-based market research platforms (well before GPT). It has also meant continuing to study the demographics of the region and how and what change is happening.

What has been your interest in the idea of age?
Ah, that started in 1988. I was studying census data in Australia that was projecting that by 2015 Australia would have an aging population. I wrote a short summary for all our executives in the country, one of whom showed it to a client who totally misunderstood it. They were a cheap toy company who jumped to the conclusion that an aging population would mean selling fewer toys. I managed to show them that, in fact, one industry to really benefit from an aging, even a shrinking, population would be toys. Why? Because proportionally more grandparents living longer and so spoiling grandkids more with more expensive toys. A conclusion I am glad to say has been proven again and again.

“From that start, I continued to look into aging demographics in detail around the world and the impact it would have on brands of all kinds”

From that start, I continued to look into aging demographics in detail around the world. Specifically, the impact it would have on brands of all kinds. Then when I moved to Asia in 1996, I started a program of holding a focus group every month with people aged 55 to 70+ in each of 20 cities across the region. I continued that program for over 15 years. We also ran the program in USA, Brazil, UK, France, and Italy for a number of years.

The early, and most important, learning was that people in that age group, whether in Mumbai or Tokyo or Auckland, shared a single trait: looking forward. When I first started looking at aging issues in the late 80s, I was a bit surprised to find that some sociologists and demographers referred to retirement as “the waiting-for-death years.” But on investigation, I found that people in the 60s and 70s were actually more likely to be thinking about: “What will I do next?” So, we developed a name for that life stage: The New Life Builders. Basically, all people 55 to mid 70s who were exploring options. So now in 2024, as I am well into that life stage, I get to live, observe, and report on it more than ever. 

“The early, and most important, learning was that people in that age group, whether in Mumbai or Tokyo or Auckland, shared a single trait: looking forward”

What do you mean by retirement?
So, all that research about New Life Builders then led to a single great finding: life is not about the old sense of retirement, which might imply slow fading away, or not doing much, or needing help. Instead, what I have found in research all over the world is that people hit their late 50s, realize they probably have 20-30 years of life to live in fairly good health, and decide to do something. To “retry” life. Sometimes in big ways, like take up cycling or marathons or go back to university for a PhD. Sometimes small things. I read a report recently how 60-something New Life Builders in Seoul pick a day each week, go get the very extensive subway system to a stop they have never visited, and spend a couple of hours exploring. Retrying their city.

“Literally, it was 60-year-olds retiring and getting their old college bands back together –retirement!”

I first “invented” the term in 2007 while working in Japan. The first of the Japanese baby boomer equivalent were just retiring (back then, retirement age in Japan was 60), and a strange thing happened. The biggest increase in sales of any product in the country that year was electric guitars. Literally, it was 60-year-olds retiring and getting their old college bands back together. Retirement!

What do you feel is wrong with the idea of retirement?
It implies letting go, fading away, or stopping. And yet, for 30 years, in any research I have done or seen, the vast majority of people don’t stop looking for something new.

How is it different in Asia than in the West?
Of course the biggest difference in what people do with their lives is economically driven. In countries where there are mandatory retirement savings programs like Singapore (arguably the world’s best), Japan, Germany, Australia, “retirement” usually means some financial security and, for many, a chance to do interesting new things. In other countries like the USA, that is more a matter of which end of the economic spectrum you are at. Same to a degree in China, although there the idea of saving for retirement has been limited. The result is that, depending on the country and the economic class, people have more or less funds to “retry.”

Automobile dealers everywhere have known for decades that near retirement for upper middle class men means a new, more personal, maybe more escapist choice.

Automobile dealers everywhere have known for decades that near retirement for upper middle class men means a new, more personal, maybe more escapist choice. For those with limited income or savings, the reality is finding work.

In Arizona as much as in Malaysia, the difference is in wealth, savings, and attitude to trying new jobs, new types of work, or just any work. Of course there is also the family connection. In some cultures, the older members of the family will be taken care of or live with children, grandchildren. Differences occur but, in reality, in my experience, Italy and Japan are pretty similar. The thing is, I have studied poor families in Bangladesh and upper middle class in Hong Kong and in both cases the people in that 50s-70s age group all want to do something; it is just a matter of scale and affordability.

“The people in that 50s-70s age group all want to do something; it is just a matter of scale and affordability.”

What are some of the new things Dave McCaughan has been trying out?
Personally, well, over the Covid period we were stuck in Sydney for a year and I took up tennis again after a 30+ year break (still awful at it but I like the release it provides). At 58, I started my own little consultancy and enjoyed working through learning a whole lot of things, especially how to use AI-based market research tools. Next, I moved from someone who was asked to speak at events because of my position in a multi-national company to a paid speaker who has to learn what subjects people want to hear about. I manage to speak at 20+ events a year around the world (and using those trips to then often explore cities new to my wife and I). And I have “retried” my interest in Renaissance history and especially how all “modern” marketing started then — yes, and especially influencer, social marketing. 

“I have been lucky to live in many countries, and worked in jobs that meant a lot of travel and meetings and researching lots of people of all kinds”

What is your favorite thing about being your age?
Knowing a lot of people. I have been lucky to live in many countries, and worked in jobs that meant a lot of travel and meetings and researching lots of people of all kinds. My closest friends are Japanese, Bangladeshi, Indians, Germans as well as Thais, Aussies and “septics” ( I hope you know what that means) and many other nationalities. So, I have the advantage of learning and seeing the world through so many lenses.

What is it that brands get wrong about older people?
Three common myths that I have constantly encountered: 1. “Old people don’t buy new things.” The truth is, research shows that in every country, premium shoppers are more likely to be 50+ and that in nearly every category, from toys to airline tickets to cosmetics, 50%+ of sales are to people over 50. Myth 2. “Old people don’t change.” In truth, people 50-75+ have been trying and changing what they buy all their lives. In fact, research shows that a person in their 60s is more likely to trial and swap products and brands than their 20-something grandchildren. Myth 3. “Old people cannot use tech.”

“The problem is, brands don’t take the time to understand what people over 60, 70, 80, really want.”

Take a typical American or Singaporean or Korean 65-year-old. They were the first generation to learn to use color TV. Not to mention remote controls (the first mass digital medium), VCRs, digital cameras, PCs, home PCs, laptops, mobile phones. Oh, and the first generation to buy smart phones (because when smart phones were launched no one else could afford them). The problem is, brands don’t take the time to understand what people over 60, 70, 80, really want. Well, some brands.

How would you make aging aspirational?
Is it not aspirational? It is changing, but the trick is in language. Don’t refer to aging or getting old. Think “longevity” or “continually trying something new” or “having the experience to know.” Take longevity, a very hot subject in the wellness world. Everyone is chasing it. From diet and exercise, to making sure “we get the most out of the future” to “how will we make the world work in the future.” We need to talk more about how aging means learning to adapt.

“Young Dave grew up loving Thor and the Hulk and I still do.”

Tell the stories of people changing and retrying. Positive examples of normal people doing normal things with accumulated knowledge, experience, taste. I love telling the story that a few years ago in Singapore I saw an ad on the side of the bus announcing the latest Marvel movie with a subheading that reminded us that 40+% of people going to see Marvel movies were over 45. I know I was one of them. Young Dave grew up loving Thor and the Hulk and I still do. I tell that story because people are amazed to hear it and to realize that maybe “the old guy in the office” knows more about the Marvel universe than they do. 

How do you view intergenerational interactions? Do older people want them, and what about younger people?
Family intergenerational interaction will perhaps get closer. Proportionally, more people over 60, less under 15. More grand- and great-grandparents wanting more time with the kids, more young people looking to older people for advice, shared home experiences. We see that popping up all over the world more and more. More “cool” older people, in every aspect of what can be seen as cool, interacting with younger generations. More older people undertaking interests they learn from the young. Pickleball for all? 70-plus-year-old DJs at raves in Japan? Remember the De Niro movie, The Intern? That is a wanted reality. People wanting to try new things with new generations. It’s a thing. Put aside the difficult “last years” that involve caring responsibilities. Think about active 60, 70, 80 New Life Builders and they are looking to bond. 

“Japan and Italy may be the leading edge but having 40% of people over 60 will soon be normal”

The world is aging. What do you see as some of the positives and negatives of these demographic changes?
The biggest negative is governments and big business trying to deny or change that course. We need to embrace it as a long-term trend that will be almost impossible to break. Japan and Italy may be the leading edge but having 40% of people over 60 will soon be normal. The trouble is, governments and companies have been locked into economic models based on constant growth of young populations. It is not going to happen. At the same time, we need to embrace the idea that technology will be the aid in continued economic and community life.

Maybe we need to take a more Japanese approach to technology. In the West, we have a centuries-old tradition to “be afraid of the machine.” New tech is seen as a threat whether it was the steam engine, Frankenstein or “the bomb.” In Japanese culture, tech is seen as just an extension of our humanity and, as such, accepted as less threat, more aid. So an aging world needs to embrace the opportunity not try to reverse it.

“After decades of [cosmetics] companies everywhere focusing on the promise of eternal beauty, a few in Japan came to realize that their market was aging and then discovered that older women did not want to be tied to disguising their age.”

There is some well-founded belief that we are about to live much longer. If that were to happen, what sort of adaptions do you see occurring? Which countries or organizations get it right about people our age?
In the early 2000s, Japanese cosmetic companies made a big leap. After decades of such companies everywhere focusing on the promise of eternal beauty, a few in Japan came to realize that their market was aging and then discovered that older women did not want to be tied to disguising their age. Rather, they focused on helping older women “bring out their real self.” It may sound like using a play on words but it changed the way the market worked and we saw Western brands follow suit.

In a couple of decades, the spokeswomen for these brands went from being in their twenties to, well, Jane Fonda. Yes, the industry is still all about “looking your best” but the emphasis on being “who you think you are” rather than pretending to be someone else has been dramatic. I cannot say any country is perfect. Everywhere we see politicians who refuse to understand demographics. But Japan, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan are all countries that are coming to grips with offering the exploratory lives that New Life Builders want. Whether government- or privately funded, the opportunities to learn, to take up new hobbies, to continue working are growing.

“If I have to go anywhere under two kilometers, I always walk it.”

What is your fitness routine?
Probably not as much as it should be. I have a basic rule of life that if I have to go anywhere under two kilometers, I always walk it. Even here in Bangkok where the temperature is always in the 80s or 90s (Fahrenheit). I make a habit of walking or jogging at least 10 kilometers every day. And most days, laps of the pool; a tropical-living bonus. And when I can, tennis.

What are your weekends like?
Weekends and weekdays are much the same. I work on projects when they happen, travel when we can. Exercise and reading and hobbies happen most days.

What are your ambitions for the next 10 years?
Travel more. Like many, we have a bucket list; some of it is specific places to visit or re-visit, some to go see friends. To write something sensible about historical interests. To keep walking everyday.

“I have drunk at least one Coke every day for at least 50 years”

To live well, it has been said we need a vision of how we will die. If you had to choose how you die, and at what age, what would it be?
Funnily enough, this came up at a lunch meeting recently. Six people aged late 20s to me at 68. And all of us said basically the same thing: reaching 90 might be a miracle but being active until the last days is what matters. 

What are your 3 non-negotiables in life?
To drink a Coca-Cola every day; not Zero or Diet but a full Coke. I have drunk at least one every day for at least 50 years. Never fails to lift me up. To walk or maybe slow jog (years of playing football, what you might call soccer, and running marathons have killed my knees) as much as possible because it is the ultimate relaxant. And to tell my wife I love her.

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